Launched & Tested - Golf TSI

[Carn]

(06-06-2009 11:26 AM)Liqui-Moly Wrote:  Thanks Carn. I thought one of the members here was making assumptions and such about me and took offence. Didnt realise he hadnt meant it that way. I dont mind opinions.

Lambchop - You must remember that the new GTI is 155kw and its TSI so its lighter and a lot more torquer. It wont be faster than the ST but it will be fabulous IMO. The 335i seems to be the next move. There has been a lot of debate though with regards to which is better. The 335i or the 330D.

Numerous magazine have tested both and many are saying the 330D is equally as fast and for affordable with the exception of servicing costs. The whole debate is a bit like the 1.4 TSI Golf.... Yes it is as fast as a MK5 GTI. Much like the 330D is as fast as the 335i. But its a 1.4 litre engine! And on the other side its a bloody Diesel!

The car manufacturers are truly sending out mixed messages to their clients. Thats the one thing I hated about the Golf 6 TSI. You sit in the traffic and you are constantly reminding yourself that you are in fact driving a 1.4 and not a GTI. I think its the same with the 330D. Everytime you see a 335i go past you are going to wish you had manned up and bought that rather.

Mike

I doubt a 330D is anywhere near as fast as a 335i except perhaps for short bursts in higher gears, etc. Same goes for the 1.4 TSI vs GTI...GTI will kill the TSI everywhere. Maybe the TSI will be ahead for the 1st 100m if the GTI driver is sleeping, otherwise it's game over

[freerider]

Mike, you only need to drive the diesel to know why you dont want it. I had a 320d, and the way the engine revs just does nothing for me. As a long distance driver it s great (provided you dont have to pay for maintenance) but as a town driver and corner carver, it sucks ass!

Do yourself a favour, find someone who has a 330D and someone who has a 335i, get them to take you for a drive and come back here and tell us which one you would pick.

If its the 330D that you pick...... shame

[Lambchop]

Mike if i wanted a tractor I would buy the John Deere
Diesels Bore me Dude ....And U cannot compare a 330D and a 335i .. The 335i Is a mutant in stock form let alone after some mods have been done
Iv Killed a 330D with my ST ..Didnt take much doing either .. But the 335i is another story
If i was you id stop reading all these one sided articles and go test them yourself

As for the GTI .. You obviously dont know a great deal about VW then
The BWA already has 166kw ( Tested MANY MANY MANY times here at the reef on various dyno's ) so There is no way in hell the New GTI will be 155. Ill bet you anything its into the 170kw range
IMO the new GTI is a facelift ...The rims are the same ..So how can it be a new model

[Carn]

(07-06-2009 04:23 PM)Lambchop Wrote:  Mike if i wanted a tractor I would buy the John Deere
Diesels Bore me Dude ....And U cannot compare a 330D and a 335i .. The 335i Is a mutant in stock form let alone after some mods have been done
Iv Killed a 330D with my ST ..Didnt take much doing either .. But the 335i is another story
If i was you id stop reading all these one sided articles and go test them yourself

As for the GTI .. You obviously dont know a great deal about VW then
The BWA already has 166kw ( Tested MANY MANY MANY times here at the reef on various dyno's ) so There is no way in hell the New GTI will be 155. Ill bet you anything its into the 170kw range
IMO the new GTI is a facelift ...The rims are the same ..So how can it be a new model

+1, killed a 330D in my GTI but I am know for a fact it wouldn't smell a 335i . BWA's ((mid 06' onwards) were indeed around the 165kw mark and the new '155kw' EA888 will be closer to 170kw than 155kw if truth be told. The only GTI the 1.4TSI might run with is the older 110kw and possibly 132kw Mk IV's

[Liqui-Moly]

Hello guys

I didnt say I wanted a 330D! I would rather die. But many journalists have been quoted saying it is a good equivelant to a 335i. But lets be honest. The sound and power of a 335i is very impressive though

The "factory quoted figures" of the vehicles are:

MK5 GTI - 147Kw
MK6 GTI - 155Kw

The VW Remap (Done by Steves Auto Clinic) where you keep your warranty is claimed to give you 174KW.

Based on the factory quoted figures, power to weight ratios etc etc the 1.4TSI does in fact have a good chance of standing up to a MK5. I dont work with Dyno runned etc etc figures as they are not reliably tested under controlled procedures whereas factory figures are (Or so we are told).

If anyone doesnt believe me I will gladly scan the VW book and show you.

Mike

[Lambchop]

(08-06-2009 08:35 AM)Liqui-Moly Wrote:  Hello guys

I didnt say I wanted a 330D! I would rather die. But many journalists have been quoted saying it is a good equivelant to a 335i. But lets be honest. The sound and power of a 335i is very impressive though

The "factory quoted figures" of the vehicles are:

MK5 GTI - 147Kw
MK6 GTI - 155Kw

The VW Remap (Done by Steves Auto Clinic) where you keep your warranty is claimed to give you 174KW.

Based on the factory quoted figures, power to weight ratios etc etc the 1.4TSI does in fact have a good chance of standing up to a MK5. I dont work with Dyno runned etc etc figures as they are not reliably tested under controlled procedures whereas factory figures are (Or so we are told).

If anyone doesnt believe me I will gladly scan the VW book and show you.

Mike

Were you a debate winner or something
Cos goood lord u sure dont give up

[Liqui-Moly]

Actually I did do debating, first team too . But I do know when to quit. lol

I am not saying anything or anyone is wrong. Just saying that I based my opinions above on that of the Volkswagen promotional items and factory quoted figures. I personally wouldnt bother with dyno figures as they are usually inaccurate and vary from session to session.

I wasnt disagreeing though... lol. I think that on a forum this is sometimes difficult to gauge.

Mike

[Carn]

Steves Autoclinic

The factory upgrade from VW is done by Motorsport in Uitenhague and definately not Steve's handiwork by any stretch of the imagination. I am sure Steve's do have a remap for the GTI's but I would avoid it like the plague

Lets compare some data and see how the Mk 5 GTI and Mk 6 1.4TSI stack up shall we...

Mk 6 1.4 TSI

Engine : 4 cylinders in line 1390 cm³ 16 valves Turbo
Power : 122 PS (90 Kw / 120 hp) at 5000 tr/min
Torque : 200 Nm (20.4 mKg / 148 Lb-Ft) at 1500 tr/min (~ 43PS)

Weight (CEE) : 1290 Kg / 2844 lbs (heaviest verified in running order)
Weight/Power ratio : 10.57 Kg/PS & 70 Kw/T
Torque/Weight ratio : 155 Nm/T

Max Speed : 201 Km/h
400m : 17.4 s. ( passing at : 132 Km/h )
Km : 31.8 s. ( passing at : 164 Km/h )

0 to 80 : 6.9 s.
0 to 100 : 10.3 s.
0 to 120 : 14.4 s.
0 to 140 : 20.1 s.
0 to 160 : 29.2 s.

90 to 130 in 6 : 17.4 s.

Golf V GTI

Engine : 4 cylinders in line 1984 cm³ 16 valves Turbo
Power : 200 PS (147 Kw / 197 hp) at 5100 tr/min (Max RPM 6500 tr/min)
Torque : 280 Nm (28.6 mKg / 207 Lb-Ft) at 1800 tr/min (~ 72PS)

Weight (CEE) : 1364 Kg / 3276 lbs (heaviest verified in running order)
Weight/Power ratio : 7.43 Kg/PS & 99 Kw/T
Torque/Weight ratio : 188 Nm/T

Max Speed : 231 Km/h
400m : 15.4 s. ( passing at : 151 Km/h )
Km : 27.7 s. ( passing at : 187 Km/h )

0 to 80 : 5.2 s.
0 to 100 : 7.2 s.
0 to 120 : 9.8 s.
0 to 140 : 13.4 s.
0 to 160 : 17.4 s.

I think it is clear for everyone to see, the GTI will almost certainly destroy the 1.4TSI anywhere and everywhere...Comprehensively. I think the 1.4TSI feels alot quicker than it really is, especially up to around 100 or so, but in the real world I think it will be getting hidings left, right and centre from a GTI

These stats show the true picture...

1.4 TSI from 100 to 160 = 18.9s
GTI from 100 to 160 = 10.2s

Thats lamp poles out on the street!

As you were

[Liqui-Moly]

Carn... Wrong car.

The car I tested is the highline. It has 118kw and 240nm Torque. Your figures are for the Comfortline TSI.

Either way I want to reiterate my original point as this seems to have turned into a "beat the mk5" session. As stated the TSI is a highly competitive engine that will keep up with a GTI and even knock a GTI owner around a bit.

But its simply isn't worth R270 000. Buy a ST, Volvo T5 or a GTI.

Mike

[onyx]

and the saga continues......

[calypso]

Mike

Your still a Fanboy.

[freerider]

(08-06-2009 09:32 PM)calypso Wrote:  Mike

Your still a Fanboy.

LOL, now you just looking for shit

[calypso]

Isnt that my job as moderator?

[Carn]

My bad....the extra killerwhales won't help it much. It is still 20% down on power compared to the GTI.

(08-06-2009 09:13 PM)Liqui-Moly Wrote:  As stated the TSI is a highly competitive engine that will keep up with a GTI and even knock a GTI owner around a bit.

Never in a million years. If you willing to put your money where your mouth is I will arrange a stock GTI to have a few runs with the TSI....Your call

[Lambchop]

(08-06-2009 09:13 PM)Liqui-Moly Wrote:  Carn... Wrong car.

The car I tested is the highline. It has 118kw and 240nm Torque. Your figures are for the Comfortline TSI.

Either way I want to reiterate my original point as this seems to have turned into a "beat the mk5" session. As stated the TSI is a highly competitive engine that will keep up with a GTI and even knock a GTI owner around a bit.

But its simply isn't worth R270 000. Buy a ST, Volvo T5 or a GTI.

Mike

Yarra Yarra Yarra. This topic is getting older and more boring than porn stars showing your there dangly bits

Mike seriously this is the time to give up

This Marvel u call the 1.4TSI is a over rated over priced excuse of a performance car.
There is no way in hell it will keep up with a GTI ...THEY are not in the same league
Carn has proven this with the tech specs
Now either you cant drive or have no clue what he is on about
And once Again Bench Dynos and Wheel power Are not the same

and how the Hell can u compare performance cars like the ST and the GTI in the same price bracket as the 1.4
Have u seen the latest pricing ..


Now seriously STOP being a FANBOY

[Carn]

Well I did botch the tech specs in my earlier post. I referenced the 90kw mini-uber TSI not the full blown deathstar version

Anyways...here's some specs off the VWSA site.

1.4TSI
Power : 118 Kw
Torque : 240 Nm
Weight : 1290 Kg
Weight/Power ratio : 91 Kw/T
Torque/Weight ratio : 186 Nm/T

GTI (AXX)
Power : 147 Kw
Torque : 280 Nm
Weight : 1364 Kg
Weight/Power ratio : 107 Kw/T
Torque/Weight ratio : 205 Nm/T

I also took the liberty of running a quick simulation on one of the various ET simulators the yanks like to use to get 'estimated' 1/4m times and exit speeds.

GTI does it in 14.37s @ 151.7km/h (incidently this is almost smack bang on what GTI's are known to run at tarlton)
TSI does it in 15.20s @ 143.4km/h

So the GTI crosses the line 0.83sec ahead of the TSI. Lets assume for a second the GTI stops accelerating when it crosses the line and maintains it's speed of 151.7km/h. Doing the math reveals that the GTI would be roughly 35m ahead of the TSI. Now 35m might not sound like much at 151km/h but if we consider the fact that the Golf 6 is only 4,2m long, it means the TSI is over 8 car lengths behind....Thats an ass kicking in anyones books

[Lambchop]

(08-06-2009 10:37 PM)Carn Wrote:  Well I did botch the tech specs in my earlier post. I referenced the 90kw mini-uber TSI not the full blown deathstar version

Anyways...here's some specs off the VWSA site.

1.4TSI
Power : 118 Kw
Torque : 240 Nm
Weight : 1290 Kg
Weight/Power ratio : 91 Kw/T
Torque/Weight ratio : 186 Nm/T

GTI (AXX)
Power : 147 Kw
Torque : 280 Nm
Weight : 1364 Kg
Weight/Power ratio : 107 Kw/T
Torque/Weight ratio : 205 Nm/T

I also took the liberty of running a quick simulation on one of the various ET simulators the yanks like to use to get 'estimated' 1/4m times and exit speeds.

GTI does it in 14.37s @ 151.7km/h (incidently this is almost smack bang on what GTI's are known to run at tarlton)
TSI does it in 15.20s @ 143.4km/h

So the GTI crosses the line 0.83sec ahead of the TSI. Lets assume for a second the GTI stops accelerating when it crosses the line and maintains it's speed of 151.7km/h. Doing the math reveals that the GTI would be roughly 35m ahead of the TSI. Now 35m might not sound like much at 151km/h but if we consider the fact that the Golf 6 is only 4,2m long, it means the TSI is over 8 car lengths behind....Thats an ass kicking in anyones books

And you didnt even use the "147kw" BWA engine
Shooooweeee . Imagine we knew what power the BWA engne was pushing

[Liqui-Moly]

Alright. I give in

But it is still immensely quick for a 1400. I am very interested to see how the two hold up on a track together. The GTI is a lot torquier. But the 1400 feels more planted and I dont know how to explain it.. It is a bit wider but not that much. lol

I think I must chat to VW and arrange a knock out on the track. On paper it appears to be slower. But in reality... It just feels so much faster (But thats probably cos its a 1400 and you expect it to be slow. (Do you see what I mean about the mixed emotions thing??)

Guys just pop into VW and take it for a spin. Too much fun.

Mike

[freerider]

I think i WILL just pop in to the dealership..... I have been meaning to take the SDrive35i for a test drive

[Carn]

(09-06-2009 07:11 AM)Liqui-Moly Wrote:  It just feels so much faster

Well here's the thing...It may feel fast but is it really ?

When I still had my GTI and Grant had his 1st Renault Sport Megane they felt like 2 totally different cars but were pretty much on a par performance wise. Whereas the Renault felt alot more punchier when coming into boost, the GTI's power delivery was more linear and smooth. The Renault felt the quicker car but in reality they were much the same