Make your pick- New product line for SA

[08micsta]

Hello everyone.

Last year I made a post about wanting to introduce a new product range into the South African Market for detailing. I am proud to say that I have managed to become the sole supplier of an entirely new range of products suited for all cars.

Unfortunately up until the launch of the range at the end of March I cannot tell you guys what the name of the range is. But all shall be reveiled. I do however need your help.

I have received permission from Freerider aka Don to post this up and would really appreciate everyones co-operation.

I have posted up a list of the different products available to us from Germany and would like an indication of which products you guys would most likely be interested in buying if you choose to buy from our range.

Please simply write down the name of the product/s you like in your reply and what other products you would like that are not on the list.

Here goes:

Penetrating vehicle Cleaner- For treating bodywork before polish (No more claying. Simply spray and wipe)

Tree Resin Remover

Insect remover

Tar remover

Silicone and Wax remover (Spray on...Wax gone)

Car wash shampoo

Car wash and wax

Grinding Paste and polish paste (Removes scratches, bad swirls and paint spray dust)

Paint polishing Cream (All paint incl. Matt)

Paint Cleaner (Removes tar, grease and flash rust)

2 in 1 Polish and Wax

Gloss Polish (Not for use on metallics)

Metallic High Gloss Polish

Hard Wax (All cars)

Gloss Polish Spray Wax (Spray on wax)

Insect Sponge

Car wash Sponge

Car Chamois

Car Cloth

Microfibre Cloth

Car Polishing Cloth

Car Polishing Pad

Glass insect remover

Windscreen Cleaner

Windscreen Cleaner Foam (Spray on... Leave to dry)

Odor Killer (Freshens filters and interior- leave inside car with car running on circulate for ten minutes)

Leather care

Upholstery foam cleaner

Deep treatment plastic cleaner (Superior protection. Long lasting and easy to use)

Plastic Deep treatment lotion (Removes stains, rejuvenates rubber seals etc)

Chrome Polishing Cream (Also for exhausts)

Rubber Care for all rubber components

Engine Comaprtment cleaner (Spray on. Spray off for a clean finish)

I realise that this is quite a far amount of effort to retype the products you like but rest assured it is greatly appreciated.

What I can tell you is that these products have been approved by all car manufacturers as far as I know (Im awaiting certifications). The company that we are dealing with have been around for over 60 years and their product developer used to develop the Sonax products.

So expect quite a competitive product range at affordable prices!

Thanks everyone. And Don... Shh not a word to anyone about the name of the range please...

Mike

[Carn]

Only 1 that fits the bill off the top of my head would be the 1Z einszett range which is/was developed (if the marketing was to be believed) by Sonax.....So what do I win

[08micsta]

(12-02-2009 05:15 PM)Carn Wrote:  Only 1 that fits the bill off the top of my head would be the 1Z einszett range which is/was developed (if the marketing was to be believed) by Sonax.....So what do I win

Er nope lol
But you get a cookie for trying

Just so you guys know. You will be able to purchase the products online from our online store and I may (not yet decided) ask Don to sell on his site as a retailer.

Mike

[Starvekos]

That range does mirror the Sonax product offering.

What I've found to be an effective way of getting your product noticed, is offering FREE samples to end users and get comments from them. I will send you my postal address through the PM function. Rather post gallon sizes.

[Carn]

Hmmm....I still say it's 1Z despite you denying it

+1 on what Siya has said, almost everything on that list is already currently available from Sonax/Chemical Guys. If the pricing is good and the products are a.) well known and b.) have a good reputation from intl users it could be something I would look at. At the moment however I would have to say that almost all the bases are already covered by more than capable product offerings. That being said however variety is always good just be aware that the local market is quickly become saturated (IMHO of course)

Siya...our local product whore

Best of luck Mike, keep us posted

[08micsta]

Hello Starvekos

I actually dont have any products in stock yet. They are arriving just before the launch.

I have Jacques at Spit and Polish writing me a recommendation (Assuming he is happy with the products) and Don has offered to write one for me too.

At the moment my samples are only arriving at the begininning of March. So its a short while till then and Im only getting three of each product. What I am trying to do is get a feeler for what products people would be interested in so that I dont get products freighted all the way from Germany that wont sell or have no market.

What I can tell you is that the prices will be cheaper than Megs and thats across the range. Obviously a few may be a bit more expensive. But that depends on which product you want. And you get a lot for the price. You gotta love the Germans.

If you guys have some time to highlight the products you like for me I can get more info.

Mike

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I think it is good that the market is becoming saturated. Detailing is not very well known here in SA and new products, new detailers and convenient online buying will help grow the "trade".

I think that people take the whole- "There are other products that offer the same thing" view far too seriously.

Perhaps the introduction of this range will get Megs to pull their socks up? Or perhaps you find that because these products are fully approved by the leading vehicle manufacturers you might find that they work better than other products.

I detailed a Porsche 911 turbo. I also did a Golf GTi. They have the exact same paint code. But using Bilt Hamber on the Golf was easy and effective. Yet on the Porsche it was pure pain. Using Megs Tech wax on the Porsche however was great.

So in an ideal situation we are offering variety where there is not a lot of variety. If you like the products you buy them. If you dont then we are history.

I feel that people should be excited about a new range instead of wary.

I look forward to further replies. If you guys dont mind I would like to keep this topic on track. There are numerous replies and although interesting they dont address the question asked.

Thanks guys
Mike

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^^

In other words Im agreeing with you Carn

[Carn]

Just to clarify my point re: locally available alternatives. As I said variety (and the inherint competition) is good, however, unless the products have a proven track record and offer a competitive alternative to whats already available, it will be prove difficult to sway users away from their proven favourites.

Don't get me wrong Mike, I am not trying to put you off or run your venture down at all. If you need any further opinions and reviews when your goodies arrive just shout


Going through your list again whilst keeping in mind current gaps in our kit I would nominate the following item/s :

Insect Remover - Haven't found anything thats blown me away yet. 4:1 APC still pwns most insect remains
Odour Killer - Sounds like a novel alternative to interior scents...Is it re-useable or is it a use and discard item ?
Silicone and wax remover - Is this a liquid product that can be used through a foam lance pre/post wash, or is it an aerosol based wipe-on/wipe-off product ?

[08micsta]

Hello Carn

The company that I am geting the polishes (They also do additives, lubricants etc etc) have been around for about 60 years now. I have full trust in their product range. But with regards to swaying... I think that with a product range as good as this one is many people wont need much help being swayed.

Insect Remover: Fully agree with the APC lol. But this doesnt harm the paintwork at all whereas APC apparently does...

Odour Killer: This is a bit like a doom bottle. You leave the car idling for ten minutes with the can inside on the floor in its little holder and it sprays like a deoderant can. All doors and windows closed whilst the product empties itself and with the fans etc inside the car on circulate at full speed it cleans out the fabric, filters etc. It can only be used once. But its also rather inexpensive.

Silicone and Wax remover: This is a spray on cleaner. So no High pressure washer unfortunately. It comes in a spray bottle. Spray the car down with it and wipe away the wax and silicone.

Another clue. The company does racing in SA and overseas.

Mike

[calypso]

I can remember coming across something like that online, just cant remember the name. Do they also make things like engine oil, ATF ect?

[calypso]

liqui-moly?

[Starvekos]

(12-02-2009 09:55 PM)calypso Wrote:  I can remember coming across something like that online, just cant remember the name. Do they also make things like engine oil, ATF ect?

Not sure if you are referring to Caramba

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(12-02-2009 07:10 PM)08micsta Wrote:  Hello Starvekos

I actually dont have any products in stock yet. They are arriving just before the launch.

Just pulling your leg Mike. Back to your original question. I will attempt to comment on most of the applications you have listed.

Penetrating vehicle Cleaner
This could be an interesting product if it does remove the same level of above surface bonded contaminants as detailing clay

Tree Resin Remover
It will most likely be a low seller considering that tree sap fallout is not a common problem. However, it may pick up “cult status” on detailing forums (before and after pics)

Insect remover
Sonax has an excellent product, I presume it’s the same formula. Therefore it will be down to pricing. Some guys have moved on to All Purpose Cleaner (“APC”) which is a lot more versatile (can be diluted and applied on different surfaces). However, not too many guys purchase in bulk i.e. 1 Gallon / 5 litres. So, you can stock 500ml units.

Tar remover
Again, the Sonax offering (bulk mist and wipe product and the consumer aerosol based sprayer) is just too good. Just have a look at before and after pictures posted by Carn and Rustbucket. Place an order for the aerosol spray as long as it comes below the Sonax pricing of circa R90

Silicone and Wax remover (Spray on...Wax gone)
Sonax is about to roll out their tiny mist and wipe spray which they have coined the “paint police”. I think CD is negotiating with Sonax to stock this product on their store. It’s a good product but its expensive. I think its packaged in 100ml quantities. A couple of guys on this forum are already using IPA to wipe oil residue left by oil heavy polishes. This is an effective and economical option, that being said, there are not too many guys that want to play chemist by mixing this concoction.

There are other options like using a paint cleaner like the Meguiar’s Deep Crystal stage 1: paint cleaner which retails for R65 for 473ml. I’ve come across a professional valet guy that uses glass cleaner for stripping wax, so you can imaging how cost effective a product like glass cleaner concentrate (dilutable 10:1) is when it can be used for cleaning glass and stripping wax / oil residue.

However, I digress. I wouldn’t bring this product in.


Car wash shampoo
This is a tough one Mike. Unless you are importing a firm favourite, you will struggle to move volumes. There are so many good shampoos locally that your offering may be surplus. We have Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Gloss; SmartWax SmartWash; Meguiars Gold Class shampoo; Sonax High Gloss shampoo.

But, car wash shampoo is the cornerstone of any detailing range. Most people start with the shampoo and if that works, they start to buy more products from the manufacturer. So, yes get some shampoo but make sure its good (read user comments / reviews on detailing forums) because it will be up against stiff competition.

Car wash and wax
Definitely no! Advise your customers to buy your pH neutral car wash shampoo and a separate cleaner wax not a one step product like Car wash and wax

Grinding Paste and polish paste
This is old school technology. Most manufactures are now offering swirl removal products that are based on nano technology or super micro abrasive technology. They have moved away from using harsh / gritty compounds to remove swirls by hand. It takes ages to break down these compounds by hand thus leaving heavy marring that looks like holograms.

Paint polishing Cream
Can’t comment, I am not familiar with this product. I presume it will compete with something like AutoGlym Super Resin Polish which is a great product and is hard to beat when it comes to paint cleaning, hiding swirls and leaving a thin layer

Paint Cleaner
Yes, go for it. Paint cleaners are great for removing oxidation and hazing and they are easy to use by hand.

2 in 1 Polish and Wax
For some reason, cleaner-wax products are not popular in South Africa. I could be wrong, but I don’t come across to many guys that have bought CleanerWax, ColorX, SmartWax (pink stuff) and even the Sonax stuff from the Xtreme range.


Gloss Polish (Not for use on metallics)
Sounds like a glaze / pure polish product. If that’s the case, go for it. It’s no secret I am a big fan of glaze products especially on red paint. Try to sell it as a system (paint cleaner + gloss polish + wax) similar to another American manufacturer.


Metallic High Gloss Polish
Refer to comments for non-metallic high gloss product above.

Hard Wax (All cars)
Hopefully, the guys that have used the Sonax Hard Wax can chime in here.

Gloss Polish Spray Wax (Spray on wax)
Spray wax technology has not been fully embraced in the detailing community. Some companies have cracked it (Werkstat and Optimum) but not to the same level as conventional liquid and paste waxes. Meguiars is trying again with Ultimate Quik Wax.


Insect Sponge
I’ve got one from Sonax, bought it in 2005 and have not used it. I can’t bring my self to use the wire mesh on paint to scrub insects. I rather use a chemical cleaner (APC or insect remover) to easy the dead bug from paint and then wash off with car wash shampoo. Again, I don’t know anyone that has one of these sponges.

Car wash Sponge
The rest of the world, bar Zymol fans, has moved on from foam sponges. Rather stock microfiber / lambswool / chenille wash mitts. Even the microfiber noodle sponges sold by Shield are better than foam sponges in my opinion.


Car Chamois
Again, microfiber technology is favoured above chamois drying towels. Rather import quality microfiber waffle weave drying towels

Car Cloth
You will have to give us guidance on the type of material (terry cloth or microfiber)

Microfibre Cloth
Go for it, however be warned. Everyone is selling microfiber cloths these days. And they are getting better over time, no longer the cheap and nasty stuff that gets hard after each wash. It will have to be a quality towel at competitive pricing.

Car Polishing Cloth
You will have to give us guidance on the type of material (terry cloth or microfiber)

Car Polishing Pad
You will have to give us guidance on the type of material (terry cloth or microfiber or foam)

Glass insect remover
Not sure what this is, how is it different from the standard insect remover

Windscreen Cleaner
Yeah, why not. It will be up against strong competition in the form of NXT Glass Cleaner and AutoGlym Fast Glass. I haven’t used the Sonax glass cleaner

Windscreen Cleaner Foam (Spray on... Leave to dry)
Sounds interesting

Odor Killer
Not too many competitors other than Autoglym (they have an odour elimimator and an air freshner) and Chemical Guys have a variety of scents from vanilla to fried chicken. Meguiar’s odor eliminator is okish.
Leather care
You can do without it unless the product is widely used in other markets where the brand is currently trading. Leather care is not a big volume product

Upholstery foam cleaner
Same as leather care

Deep treatment plastic cleaner
Yes, most care have trim / vinyl / rubber that needs cleaning and protecting

Plastic Deep treatment lotion
Same comment as plastic cleaner above

Chrome Polishing Cream
No doubt, everyone loves the ming to bling transformation on chrome and metal surfaces.

Rubber Care for all rubber components
This sounds like the Sonax / 1Z Gummi Pledger (Sp). It’s a great applicator but I don’t like the liquid contained. I replaced it with one of my preferred cleaner/protectants

Engine Compartment cleaner
This sounds good

I hope my comments will help

[08micsta]

Nope its not them but yes.

They do make atf, oil additives, lubricants and service equipment.

Mike

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Hello guys

Yes the product range Im bringing in is the Liqui Moly detailing/car care range.

Thank you for the in depth reply. Drop me a pm with some products there you want to try and I can send a few samples.

Would I be correct in assuming that Sonax has quite a large market share here in Cape Town? I usually buy from the UK so still figuring out the market here.

Please note that from a detailing point of view I don't agree with a few of the products like chamois etc. But I figured why not just list them all.

Mike

[Carn]

Interesting product choice Mike, haven't heard much about the Liqui-Moly range of car care/detailing products TBH but I know their oils/lubricants are highly regarded.

As far as market share in CPT for Sonax I can't say but select Sonax product lines are now available alongside Meguiars in Builders Warehouse as well as in Hi-Q stores country wide. There is also apparently something in the pipeline for Makro stores as well, how far it is at present I don't know but I think Sonax is out to get Meguiars if you ask me

Considering the exposure to be had from BW (and Makro if it comes online) combined with solid products that, for the most part work extremely well, I am fairly confident Sonax will soon start to eat into Meguiars market share locally. That being said however, I feel there is enough overlap in their respective product ranges so as to not be in competition with one another in all categories.

Ideally you would want to find products/lines that fill gaps in the current market, or alternatively offer a product that outshines the competition at competitive prices. At the end of the day YOU need to be confident about your products and be prepared to stand behind them (in the face of stiff competition) all the way

[08micsta]

Hello Carn

Thank you for the kind words.

Im sure if you agree but I think that irrespective of whatever products Sonax or Megs supply compared to the products I will supply (That may even do the same thing) I feel that there will still be competition.

My goal with the Liqui Moly range is to try and make detailing more affordable. The sizes for these products are also quite large which is nice as it will last longer.

I have full confidence in the range even though I have never tried the products. As said earlier. Pop me a PM with your address and I can arrange some samples for you.

Mike

[springbok]

I'm very interested to see how this project goes. I am a great believer in competition (especially if it keeps the prices keen )

It has always puzzled me to see how little support the really good detailing lines get from the motor spares/accessories retailing outlets.

If you just take Meguiars as an example, the only big retailers who stock this brand are BW and Makro. Game say they do.....but they don't!
AutoZone don't, nor do Midas.

AutoGlym used to be available from the AA but to my knowledge they are phasing this out and the only other place which stocks it is a lonely little shop in Long Street and some Autoquip outlets.

Unfortunately the thing you will always battle is that 99.9% of car owners will use Rally and Shield products which they can buy from Pick n Pay while they do their weekly shopping.

[08micsta]

Hello

The reason detailing as such has no support is because it is not very big here in SA.

When you introduce new products at good prices the market grows. When we have shows and forums are invited to do displays then involvement is indetailing grows.

In my opinion it is up to guys (and gals) like ourselves to create a market for ourselves and for other people who have the potential.

Mike

[08micsta]

Hello Guys

Its a week before the launch and my dad has just called me........

He has been chatting to the Germans In JHB (The owner of Liqui Moly etc flew down from Germany) and he says that the Liqui Moly Range is almost identical to Sonax.... Similar formulas, mixtures etc....

Hmmm.... I wonder why?

Oh yes.... Cos the head product designer for Sonax now works for Liqui Moly

Just took a look at the prices and the Liqui Moly products are cheaper than Sonax for what is basically a Sonax product in a different container with more quantity! hehe

So yes guys. Your suspicians were correct. I cant wait for my samples to arrive hehe.

Mike

[onyx]

Good to hear and good luck with the new venture!

Really interested in that 'Clay alternative'!!!
Anything like that in the Sonax range at present, seeing that its Sonax rebottled?!?!?

[08micsta]

Not that I know of... But Im not big on the Sonax range.... Not really used them much....

The product is a combo product from what I understand:

Penetrating Paint Cleaner/ Paint Cleaner - You have two options, spray or cream. (500ml/600ml) Expect to pay about R110 but will be cheaper)

This product removes grease, oil, fuel and other strong contaminants as well as surface and flash rust off all vehicle paints. The product has extremely good wetting characteristics and very strong penetration properties. Its also highly biodegradeable for those who care. lol. Its used to pre treat car paintwork before polishing or washing. It will also restore depth of colour and remove weathered paint contaminants as well a oxidation all in one product. It can be used with a machine polisher too. Should do about 4 or more cars per bottle.

I have been told that it works very well in conjunction with this product:

Silicone and Wax remover: 250ml (Expect to pay R100-R110 but should be cheaper)

This product works in conjunction with the paint cleanser and removes silicone, grime and wax from paint, glass and chrome. Especially useful before polishing or waxing. Should do roughly 4 cars per bottle too.

So you are getting a two stage product that does not inflict damage like some clays do if not used correctly at a cheaper price and it also means you dont need to stock products like tar remover, oxidation removers and you get a lot of product for the price.... So a good deal...

I must stop now as Im not a forum sponsor yet and dont want to p*ss the sponsors off. Don... I think I might seriously look into this sponsor thing... Dont you wanna PM the costs please?

Mike

[freerider]

done

(20-03-2009 03:06 PM)08micsta Wrote:  Not that I know of... But Im not big on the Sonax range.... Not really used them much....

The product is a combo product from what I understand:

Penetrating Paint Cleaner/ Paint Cleaner - You have two options, spray or cream. (500ml/600ml) Expect to pay about R110 but will be cheaper)

This product removes grease, oil, fuel and other strong contaminants as well as surface and flash rust off all vehicle paints. The product has extremely good wetting characteristics and very strong penetration properties. Its also highly biodegradeable for those who care. lol. Its used to pre treat car paintwork before polishing or washing. It will also restore depth of colour and remove weathered paint contaminants as well a oxidation all in one product. It can be used with a machine polisher too. Should do about 4 or more cars per bottle.

I have been told that it works very well in conjunction with this product:

Silicone and Wax remover: 250ml (Expect to pay R100-R110 but should be cheaper)

This product works in conjunction with the paint cleanser and removes silicone, grime and wax from paint, glass and chrome. Especially useful before polishing or waxing. Should do roughly 4 cars per bottle too.

So you are getting a two stage product that does not inflict damage like some clays do if not used correctly at a cheaper price and it also means you dont need to stock products like tar remover, oxidation removers and you get a lot of product for the price.... So a good deal...

I must stop now as Im not a forum sponsor yet and dont want to p*ss the sponsors off. Don... I think I might seriously look into this sponsor thing... Dont you wanna PM the costs please?

Mike